Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/26 : 21:33:32
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
quote:Originally posted by Impulse_Response:
The world needs more Milton Friedman and less Bernie Sanders. That would help the economy everywhere.
Milton Friedman was great. Thomas Sowell too. I could listen to those guys talk all day. Fantastic minds.
I'm happy to find someone else who knows about Thomas Sowell. I've been listening to these two for months, and I just bought Thomas Sowell's new book.
Same here. I've been watching their videos on YouTube. You can't go wrong with Thomas Sowell. He was debunking narratives in the early 80s that are still being pushed by idiots today. His book is getting excellent reviews.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,481 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/27 : 14:14:46
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
quote:Originally posted by Jacco:
"The Johnson is strong.
The Johnson is stable."
LOL!
COVID numbers are higher than in any other European country
Pound has been weak since 2016 and there is no improvement in sight
Cutting down on immigration doesn't make sense in a world where it is required for economic growth. Even more so to rebuild the economy after COVID (Boris asking for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BMZL9ySqLk)
NHS is on the brink of a collapse
Scotland never favoured independence more than now
The real impact of Brexit is to be seen AFTER the transition period. Years after.
Wake up and stick to the facts mate. Boris is failing your country.
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
The Guardian is the Garbage. I read one of their articles the other day. Lots of rubbish about 'and Tory minister has said this' and 'A Tory back bencher said that' Not one name was mentioned as it was all lies to try and make out that the Tories are at war with each other to deflect away from Labour's inevitable split and yet the BBC run the exact same stories the Guardian day in and day out.
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
Strong arguments. I'm impressed!
Covid numbers is a daft argument as Ive pointed out on here before. Its an unprecedented pandemic and if theres any blame it should lie squarely at chinas door. Were mistakes made? Of course they were but thats always going to be the case. In my opinion, lockdown is not a viable option longer term and many deaths have been and will continue to be caused by lockdown measures, which dont get reported. We arent out of this yet but people with an agenda will use anything to have a go at government.
The NHS has been on the brink of collapse for decades. As someone who makes a living from selling to the NHS, I know a bit about it. It is down to mismanagement over a number of governments who continually underfund it. The problem is that people need to pay more tax to properly fund the NHS and there is no government who will come out and say that as people wont vote for higher taxes. In the UK, people have the perception that healthcare is free which is the root of the problem.
As for Scotland wanting independence, that has been bubbling for many years too. Wouldnt put it down to the current government. Brexit and most recently the blame game for our death toll with coronavirus has probably tipped the polls in favour of independence but its been coming for years anyway. The older population is dying out and being replaced with younger voters who are largely in favour of independence.
And by the way Im no fan of Boris Johnson but I look at the other options available and it is grim.
Alert moderatorEdited by - The drunken scotsman on 2020/07/28 07:22:52
Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/28 : 09:27:10
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Jacco:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
Strong arguments. I'm impressed!
Covid numbers is a daft argument as Ive pointed out on here before. Its an unprecedented pandemic and if theres any blame it should lie squarely at chinas door. Were mistakes made? Of course they were but thats always going to be the case. In my opinion, lockdown is not a viable option longer term and many deaths have been and will continue to be caused by lockdown measures, which dont get reported. We arent out of this yet but people with an agenda will use anything to have a go at government.
The NHS has been on the brink of collapse for decades. As someone who makes a living from selling to the NHS, I know a bit about it. It is down to mismanagement over a number of governments who continually underfund it. The problem is that people need to pay more tax to properly fund the NHS and there is no government who will come out and say that as people wont vote for higher taxes. In the UK, people have the perception that healthcare is free which is the root of the problem.
As for Scotland wanting independence, that has been bubbling for many years too. Wouldnt put it down to the current government. Brexit and most recently the blame game for our death toll with coronavirus has probably tipped the polls in favour of independence but its been coming for years anyway. The older population is dying out and being replaced with younger voters who are largely in favour of independence.
And by the way Im no fan of Boris Johnson but I look at the other options available and it is grim.
The NHS has had extra funding every year. The rise in population is what puts the strain on this service. Mass Immigration. The funding since 1997 has doubled (Tony Blair's open borders). This isn't going to be sustainable with more and more people in the country.
Have a look at this video. @ 3:45 & @ 7:35. Carl Benjamin takes a look at this.
Alert moderatorEdited by - Si Thompson on 2020/07/28 09:56:42
jenks Advanced Member
United Kingdom
3,598 posts Joined: Feb, 2003
19 hardcore releases
Posted - 2020/07/28 : 13:53:53
The only utility the Tories provide is getting Brexit over the line and demonstrating to Labour that Marxism isn't popular. Beyond that, as a "conservative" party they're not fit for purpose. They're a Capitalist party and nothing more. They would tarmac over the Lake District and import half of Hong Kong if they thought it would get them half a percentage point extra GDP growth per year.
And just so no one is under any illusions - the Tories are passionately pro-mass migration. The numbers have risen the longer they've been in power, and will continue to rise when their meek points system is introduced. They can control migration as much as they like but choose not to for economic reasons.
The real question, which I never seem to get a straight answer to, is why does Labour support a policy as transparently Capitalist as mass migration along with them? It's bizarre. They will abandon any and all principles they have before mass migration too. The only theory I have is that they hope to radically change the ethnic makeup of the UK to the point that "conservative" politics becomes untenable. I suspect they're in for a rude awakening on that score.
Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/28 : 17:23:32
quote:Originally posted by jenks:
The only utility the Tories provide is getting Brexit over the line and demonstrating to Labour that Marxism isn't popular. Beyond that, as a "conservative" party they're not fit for purpose. They're a Capitalist party and nothing more. They would tarmac over the Lake District and import half of Hong Kong if they thought it would get them half a percentage point extra GDP growth per year.
And just so no one is under any illusions - the Tories are passionately pro-mass migration. The numbers have risen the longer they've been in power, and will continue to rise when their meek points system is introduced. They can control migration as much as they like but choose not to for economic reasons.
The real question, which I never seem to get a straight answer to, is why does Labour support a policy as transparently Capitalist as mass migration along with them? It's bizarre. They will abandon any and all principles they have before mass migration too. The only theory I have is that they hope to radically change the ethnic makeup of the UK to the point that "conservative" politics becomes untenable. I suspect they're in for a rude awakening on that score.
Some good points you've made here. As far as I can see, it's a left wing Tory government.
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
Strong arguments. I'm impressed!
Covid numbers is a daft argument as Ive pointed out on here before. Its an unprecedented pandemic and if theres any blame it should lie squarely at chinas door. Were mistakes made? Of course they were but thats always going to be the case. In my opinion, lockdown is not a viable option longer term and many deaths have been and will continue to be caused by lockdown measures, which dont get reported. We arent out of this yet but people with an agenda will use anything to have a go at government.
The NHS has been on the brink of collapse for decades. As someone who makes a living from selling to the NHS, I know a bit about it. It is down to mismanagement over a number of governments who continually underfund it. The problem is that people need to pay more tax to properly fund the NHS and there is no government who will come out and say that as people wont vote for higher taxes. In the UK, people have the perception that healthcare is free which is the root of the problem.
As for Scotland wanting independence, that has been bubbling for many years too. Wouldnt put it down to the current government. Brexit and most recently the blame game for our death toll with coronavirus has probably tipped the polls in favour of independence but its been coming for years anyway. The older population is dying out and being replaced with younger voters who are largely in favour of independence.
And by the way Im no fan of Boris Johnson but I look at the other options available and it is grim.
The NHS has had extra funding every year. The rise in population is what puts the strain on this service. Mass Immigration. The funding since 1997 has doubled (Tony Blair's open borders). This isn't going to be sustainable with more and more people in the country.
Have a look at this video. @ 3:45 & @ 7:35. Carl Benjamin takes a look at this.
Interesting vid with some valid points. It isnt as clear cut as this would make out though. Health tourism is clearly a problem and International Health Service is about right. There are a whole load of other issues though.
The majority of spend in the NHS is on staff and there a load of new professions in recent years. It used to be that Doctors could order whatever they wanted but that all changed around 15 years ago with the introduction of Procurement to the NHS. Whole departments of useless ****s who know **** all about healthcare and everything about trying to cut corners by buying cheap shite. They are set targets to save money on products but actually what they do is cost the service even more money by ordering products which lead to poorer patient outcomes and ultimately add to the overall cost of the health service in other ways.
Products and technology have developed a hell of a lot in the last few years. This costs more money than older equipment, MRI being a prime example of something that has transformed imaging and diagnosis but comes at a cost.
Yes there might be additional funding and some of that can be accredited to health tourism, but more funding from taxpayers is needed regardless to keep up with the advances in healthcare and a changing world with ageing population. Its not as simple as saying close the borders and it will be ok.
Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 06:47:23
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
quote:Originally posted by The drunken scotsman:
quote:Originally posted by Jacco:
quote:Originally posted by LeVzi:
Straight out of the guardian lol what a load of rubbish
Strong arguments. I'm impressed!
Covid numbers is a daft argument as Ive pointed out on here before. Its an unprecedented pandemic and if theres any blame it should lie squarely at chinas door. Were mistakes made? Of course they were but thats always going to be the case. In my opinion, lockdown is not a viable option longer term and many deaths have been and will continue to be caused by lockdown measures, which dont get reported. We arent out of this yet but people with an agenda will use anything to have a go at government.
The NHS has been on the brink of collapse for decades. As someone who makes a living from selling to the NHS, I know a bit about it. It is down to mismanagement over a number of governments who continually underfund it. The problem is that people need to pay more tax to properly fund the NHS and there is no government who will come out and say that as people wont vote for higher taxes. In the UK, people have the perception that healthcare is free which is the root of the problem.
As for Scotland wanting independence, that has been bubbling for many years too. Wouldnt put it down to the current government. Brexit and most recently the blame game for our death toll with coronavirus has probably tipped the polls in favour of independence but its been coming for years anyway. The older population is dying out and being replaced with younger voters who are largely in favour of independence.
And by the way Im no fan of Boris Johnson but I look at the other options available and it is grim.
The NHS has had extra funding every year. The rise in population is what puts the strain on this service. Mass Immigration. The funding since 1997 has doubled (Tony Blair's open borders). This isn't going to be sustainable with more and more people in the country.
Have a look at this video. @ 3:45 & @ 7:35. Carl Benjamin takes a look at this.
Interesting vid with some valid points. It isnt as clear cut as this would make out though. Health tourism is clearly a problem and International Health Service is about right. There are a whole load of other issues though.
The majority of spend in the NHS is on staff and there a load of new professions in recent years. It used to be that Doctors could order whatever they wanted but that all changed around 15 years ago with the introduction of Procurement to the NHS. Whole departments of useless ****s who know **** all about healthcare and everything about trying to cut corners by buying cheap shite. They are set targets to save money on products but actually what they do is cost the service even more money by ordering products which lead to poorer patient outcomes and ultimately add to the overall cost of the health service in other ways.
Products and technology have developed a hell of a lot in the last few years. This costs more money than older equipment, MRI being a prime example of something that has transformed imaging and diagnosis but comes at a cost.
Yes there might be additional funding and some of that can be accredited to health tourism, but more funding from taxpayers is needed regardless to keep up with the advances in healthcare and a changing world with ageing population. Its not as simple as saying close the borders and it will be ok.
I agree with that, but cutting mass immigration down will definitely benefit the NHS. The numbers are simply too high to sustain going forward.
In 1984 there were 56.36 million people in this country, now fast forward to 1997, and there were 58.24 million in the UK. That's a rise in population of just over 2 million in 13 years. We now have 67,886,011 people (that we know of, probably even higher) in 2020. That's almost 10 million more people in 20 years as opposed to only 2 million in a 13 year period between 1984-1997.
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,481 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 11:32:51
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
The reason why no one has that conversation is because anyone who dares bring it up gets shouted down or called a bigot. Dare someone go on question time and try to mention this fact when some Labour plant bleats on about 'Tory cuts' and the selected audience boo at them. If a Tory is on any talk show he or she is outnumbered by a gang of lefties. Labour MP here, Guardian journalist there.
You sometimes wonder how there leave vote just about got through. The reason was because we where told by the liberal wets that we would have been racist had we voted leave so we stuck fingers up to them and told them to f*ck off. 17 million f*ck offs
Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/29 : 12:53:01
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The stats are irrefutable. Whilst there are other issues, mass immigration and a rising population is the main issue. The problem is, it's an important conversation that a lot of people are not willing to have.
The reason why no one has that conversation is because anyone who dares bring it up gets shouted down or called a bigot. Dare someone go on question time and try to mention this fact when some Labour plant bleats on about 'Tory cuts' and the selected audience boo at them. If a Tory is on any talk show he or she is outnumbered by a gang of lefties. Labour MP here, Guardian journalist there.
You sometimes wonder how there leave vote just about got through. The reason was because we where told by the liberal wets that we would have been racist had we voted leave so we stuck fingers up to them and told them to f*ck off. 17 million f*ck offs
BBC Question time is absolute AIDS. Most discussions today are not balanced, as you say, it's usually the host with two, or sometimes three against one. It always seems to be the one with conservative views that is outnumbered.
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,481 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 11:24:51
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
I post in a lot of Facebook debate groups and these 'gotchas' are common place from lefties. The thing is with a biased media it can make things difficult to get a point across.
Take the double voting students from 2017. It was a story that came out of the right wing press that might have been exaggerated somewhat but evidence of this had been proven to have happened on a number of occasions which did lead to a court case.
The BBC did not touch the story. The left wing media claimed that Corbyn was the rel winner of the 2017 election (lol that is laughable now) and no one from the left ever questioned the spikes in Labour votes in certain areas. The BBC must have known about this but they refused to touch the story.
Now you try and debate with someone about it who then claims that it never happened because the only people who reported it happened to be the right wing press who where just 'trying to smear Corbyn again'
The most powerful weapon that the BBC uses is bias by omission. Omitting certain news stories prevents them from public knowledge and thus they can be written off as rubbish.
It is curious however that on an almost daily basis the BBC has the exact same stories up as the Guardian. The two are joined at the hip and yet when the Mail, Sun or Express have a story up (and I am not even a fan of the latter) you will never see it covered by the BBC.
Si Thompson Junior Member
United Kingdom
131 posts Joined: Mar, 2016
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 12:38:46
quote:Originally posted by Smoogie:
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
The problem today is that most political discussion is done in bad faith, usually from the left. People are very partisan, and instead of having a healthy debate and truth seeking together, it's all about trying to win or 'Gotchas'. One's views should always be able to change when provided with facts/evidence.
I post in a lot of Facebook debate groups and these 'gotchas' are common place from lefties. The thing is with a biased media it can make things difficult to get a point across.
Take the double voting students from 2017. It was a story that came out of the right wing press that might have been exaggerated somewhat but evidence of this had been proven to have happened on a number of occasions which did lead to a court case.
The BBC did not touch the story. The left wing media claimed that Corbyn was the rel winner of the 2017 election (lol that is laughable now) and no one from the left ever questioned the spikes in Labour votes in certain areas. The BBC must have known about this but they refused to touch the story.
Now you try and debate with someone about it who then claims that it never happened because the only people who reported it happened to be the right wing press who where just 'trying to smear Corbyn again'
The most powerful weapon that the BBC uses is bias by omission. Omitting certain news stories prevents them from public knowledge and thus they can be written off as rubbish.
It is curious however that on an almost daily basis the BBC has the exact same stories up as the Guardian. The two are joined at the hip and yet when the Mail, Sun or Express have a story up (and I am not even a fan of the latter) you will never see it covered by the BBC.
I stopped watching the news years ago. I haven't read a newspaper since about 2010.
It's funny you should mention about MSM omitting stories. When I speak to either my Nan or Grandad about things happening in this country or around the world, they have absolutely no idea what's going on because they don't go online and watch mainstream media. If I ask them now, I bet they don't know anything about what's happening in Portland right now, or these other Democrat runs states.
Smoogie Advanced Member
United Kingdom
5,481 posts Joined: Mar, 2006
Posted - 2020/07/30 : 12:42:17
quote:Originally posted by Si Thompson:
It's funny you should mention about MSM omitting stories. When I speak to either my Nan or Grandad about things happening in this country or around the world, they have absolutely no idea what's going on because they don't go online and watch mainstream media. If I ask them now, I bet they don't know anything about what's happening in Portland right now, or these other Democrat runs states.
The sad thing is that is the idea of omission bias. The BBC know full well that they cannot get to everyone with their agenda but their is the middle ground people who do not always follow politics or the news so they vote for what seems to be the best at the time.
Why would anyone want to vote for the Tories when they are clearly going to sell the NHS off to Trump? That was what Corbyn claimed when Russians sent him a document but when the Daily Mail debunked his claims the BBC fell silent. They made a lot of noise when there was a 'boy asleep on a hospital floor' though. The BBC propaganda machine is in full swing and it needs to be sorted out
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Posted - 2020/07/26 : 21:17:56
